Interview on ABC Melbourne about new scams campaign

Raf Epstein (Host): When was the last time your phone pinged and there was a message from your bank a fake one, of course, because they’re never real. Uh, but they come thick and fast. They are relentless. Should the banks be doing more to stop it? We are joined by Anna Bligh, CEO of the Australian Banking Association, good morning. Can you tell us what you’re doing?

Anna Bligh (Guest) Good morning. Raf, good to talk to you. Yes, banks are investing in a range of initiatives, which should make it much, much harder for Australians to become victims of scams. Some of the things we really want people to know is that all banks, whether they’re the big four or right through to the smallest credit union and building society, are implementing things like payment warnings and delays. So, if this is the first time you’ve transferred to an account, and it looks a bit strange, banks will increasingly – you’ll as a customer, you will start to see warnings this looks unusual do you really want to make the payment? Delays so the payment doesn’t go through for a period of time, maybe even 24 hours or longer. And so, if you get off the phone and you think, I  don’t think that’s right, means that the banks got time to recover, to get the money back into your account. So, you know, interestingly, five years ago, six years ago, banks built a new real time payment system for the country, we’re now putting in more friction, more delays and slowing it down a bit to keep customers safer.

Raf Epstein: Why shouldn’t that be mandated? Why should that not be compulsory?

Anna Bligh: Well, it may well become compulsory. At the moment, banks are doing this voluntarily, but the government has indicated clearly that they are going to introduce mandatory codes for all parts of the scam chain, your telecommunication companies, your banks, and also social media platforms, because there is no one single way into a customer’s wallet. First of all, you get the scam through a phone message, a text message, an email, then you might see an investment opportunity or a romance scam on your social media platforms, and then you make the transfer through your bank. So, there’s a lot of players in this field. Government has said they’re going to introduce mandatory codes and I expect that that will become mandatory.

Raf Epstein: So you do ,because, I mean, and again, I have noticed over the last few months, my bank, if I, if I have a new account, it does a bit of a name check to check that the name does match the number, those sort of things. But you expect it’ll become what precisely are you expecting? Will become mandatory?

Anna Bligh: Well,the government is still drafting the legislation, but what the minister has made clear, and banks are supportive of this, because we think customers are entitled to know, you know what the lay of the land is, and all sectors that are involved need to know what their obligations are. The government has said that they will give the ACCC powers to require a code and to make it mandatory, and they will expect to see in those codes, whether it’s the code for telcos, banks, etc, a series of requirements that will not be optional. And, so going to the name check is a good example. Some of our larger banks in Australia have some sort of name checking technology. However, it is not a universal system. No matter who you bank with, you’ll get the same kind of message and security. That system is now being built and paid for by banks. It’s finished its design phase, it’s now in build phase. We anticipate it will be in test phase by the end of this year, and banks early next year will all come on to that system. It’s a big piece of technology. When it’s finished, we will be, we’re in a bit of a race. New Zealand’s building one at the same time. Depending on who finishes first, we’ll only be the third or the fourth country in the world.

Raf Epstein: Because the reason I asked the specific question about what would be mandatory, because you represent the Banking Association. I think last time you came on, I suggested that there is a, there’s an obligation in Britain on, on the banks there to check the account, and I think maybe even to refund as well. But are you saying that you think we’re heading to a place where it’ll become you, every bank will legally be obliged to essentially do a safety check of the person I’m giving money to?

Anna Bligh: Well, that would be my expectation, and I think the government’s been pretty clear that they are going to set the bar high, not only for banks, but telcos, social media platforms, and if you fail to meet that bar, then you will be liable to reimburse the customer for the part that you’re responsible for. So.

Raf Epstein: Are you expecting the reimbursement to come as well?

Anna Bligh: I do expect that the government will require those parts of the scam chain that fail to make some payment to the customer. So, it won’t just be banks with a mandatory obligation. It’ll be, you know, if your telco allows a scammer to break into the thread in your phone, or allows numbers that they’ve already know have been associated with scams to continue to exist. If your bank transfers money to an account which they knew or should have known had been associated with scams. If your social media platform is advertising an investment opportunity that they know is a scam, that you know, involves a celebrity or someone you know with a profile who has already told them that’s not me, take it down. So, these are the sorts of things you will see the government’s trying to build this at the moment, or build the idea for the legislation. So, from the customer’s point of view, though, what we’re advocating is they should have one door that they go in, when they’ve got a complaint, and then it’s up to the arbitrator to say, well, look, the telco failed here, that’s got some responsibility, and a percentage of where their responsibility begins and ends, and the bank you’ve got some as well, and look, sometimes maybe the customer, you gave your pin away, you did things that you knew you shouldn’t have done. So, everybody’s got some responsibility here, and that means, when you get it wrong, you need to make sure, first of all, get it right in the first place, make sure you’re putting in place the mechanisms that stop scams getting to customers. You know, I’m still getting, messages that tell me my tolls aren’t paid.

Raf Epstein: Oh, I get them as well. Uh, Anna Bligh, I need to leave it there only because the news is upon us, but I await that system with interest. Thanks for joining us.

Anna Bligh: Thanks. Bye

Ends