ABA CEO Simon Birmingham interview on 2SM with Tim Webster 

E&OE  
Radio Interview  
2SM Breakfast 
18 November 2025  

Topics: Black Friday scam warning; Meta hosting scam ads 

Tim Webster (Host): Now we’ll remind you about all of this regularly, because there’s too much going on, it’s just not funny and we’ve done it a couple of times already today, and we’ll continue to do it. Shoppers are being urged to be wary of dodgy deals, because the Black Friday sales are pretty much on, and it’s you know, they’re on but there’s no specific Friday. So nearly $40 million was lost to buying and selling scams over the past year in this country – $40 million. And you’re being urged just to be very careful of fake websites, of fake ads, parcel delivery, fake notification scams coming up for Christmas. It’s likely to get worse. And the Australian Banking Association CEO is Simon Birmingham, on the line. G’day, Simon. 

Simon Birmingham (Guest): Good morning Tim, good to be with you.  

Tim Webster: Yeah, good to be with you too. And mate, I just got one this morning, which is one I get fairly regularly, and it says your parcel from Australia Post is ready to be picked up, and I haven’t ordered anything. So, I know that’s a scam, but there’s so many of them mate. 

Simon Birmingham: Mate, there are so many, and it is really this time of year when people just need to be so careful and take – the desperation and the desire to get a bargain is totally understandable, and we all like to grab something when it’s out on sale and cheaper than you might ordinarily pay. And Australians are estimated to spend around $7 billion during the Black Friday sales, and increasingly, a lot of it online, but people really need to check that when they are going to visit a shopping website, it’s the real deal, that it’s not some fake duplicate of that shopping website. It’s real dress. Make sure you’re using a real search engine. Make sure that you’re going through and taking those extra precautions. 

Tim Webster: Now, what are the red flags? Though, I know there’s many of them. Doing your homework before you make that purchase and press the buy button and send your money away. What are some of the obvious red flags? 

Simon Birmingham: The very obvious ones, and you just referenced it, messages and the like, once you’ve paid for a good you shouldn’t expect to be asked for any more money. So, if it’s in delivery and you get a message asking you to make an additional payment for the delivery, then it’s highly likely you’re being scammed. You should be alert for that through text messages, through emails, or any of those unsolicited messages that come in. AI is making these games more sophisticated, and so it does also mean looking carefully that the website you’re on is the real website. That extra bit of time to double check. And some of these my Friday deals are pretty good, and the old adage still applies – if it seems too good to be true, it quite possibly is, and you might be being scammed. 

Tim Webster: Yeah, absolutely. And I was going to ask you that about technology, major advances in technology that most of us have probably not kept up with, but the scammers certainly have. So, it’s pretty easy at the moment to get caught, because they’re getting better at it, aren’t they? 

Simon Birmingham: They are getting better at it. You know, Australian banks spent around $9 billion last year on technology. Now, some of that is just all the payment systems and things that are necessary to keep the economy humming as people increasingly use technology platforms to transact all of their financing and banking. But a lot of it is also in scams prevention, fraud prevention, and using AI tools, increasingly, to pick up and to block transactions that might be scams, but there’s no bank will be able to do that. They are in a battle against the scammers, and so taking that extra time and caution checking the details you’re paying through to are correct, and if you are unfortunate enough to be scammed, then please make sure you report it as well, because while there’s, again, no guarantee that your bank can get your money back from the scammer, and certainly all the intelligence they get provides greater help for them to protect the next group of Australians and to make sure other people don’t get ripped-off. 

Tim Webster: $40 million is a lot of money for people to lose it really distresses me. So, what are the best ways, if you like, to check if you’re actually on a legitimate site before you buy the product? 

Simon Birmingham: So look carefully at the URL address, the website address that is there in your internet browser, and making sure that if it is, let’s say it’s a sporting good, and you’re looking at the Adidas side or Nike side or the Rebel Sports side or whatever, make sure that that URL address appears to match up with what you would expect the company to be, all those big name companies, you know, own brand names on the internet. Indeed, double check if you want by going to your search engine, to Google or whatever other search engine use, and check again that you’re going into the right website. Little, simple things that people can do there just to stop, to check, to verify that it is the right thing. 

Tim Webster: Yeah, I got to mention this. I know it, and my wife does most of the online shopping, what about a secure way to pay, like a PayPal? Is that still a good idea? 

Simon Birmingham: Look, there are different payment options. Ultimately, your traditional banking, credit cards and other payment options should provide the same sort of level of security nowadays, and indeed, sometimes better security because of, as I say, that the efforts banks are making to make sure that they are tracking the dodgy accounts, the dodgy transfer links and, and that’s why sometimes people find that their transfer gets held up. So, relying on those traditional technologies and and not gambling people, people who know what they’re doing may use different payment platforms, but for many, that can be a difficult thing, and they see them being tricked into something inadvertently. 

Tim Webster: Bottom line, and it’s a pity, we have to say it, be careful. Be very careful. 

Simon Birmingham: That’s right. People have always been sadly, there’s always been a bad element out there eager to rip people off. These are the new means by which people seek to do so, and particularly So, much of it overseas, and tragically, social media companies letting them advertise on websites for marketplace scams and online. We had shocking revelations the other day about Meta taking billions of dollars knowingly in scan ads that around the world. That’s why people really do need to be careful. 

Tim Webster: Yeah, there’s much, not much due diligence with them, that’s for sure. But I think we know that. Thank you very much for the chat. It’s really worthwhile having-we need to have it as we head into Christmas. Thanks, mate.  

Simon Birmingham: Thanks Tim, my pleasure.