ABA CEO Simon Birmingham interview on Mix 104.9 Darwin with Katie Woolf 

E&OE 
Radio Interview 
Mix 104.9 Darwin  
20 November 2025 

Topics: Black Friday scam warning; meta profiting from scam ads. 

Katie Woolf (Host): Now, we are due to catch up with the Australian Banking Association of Australia, because they’re urging Territorians and indeed, everybody across Australia to stay alert as Black Friday sales kick off with shoppers losing almost $40 million to scams in the past year. And I know that we all always think to ourselves, ‘oh it’s not going to happen to us, I’m sure that I am not going to be scammed’, but it actually happens a lot more easy than what people would probably realise. And we’ve spoken to Territorians at different times over the years who’ve been scammed out of their long or their hard-earned cash. And it’s pretty devastating for people. And sometimes you know you’re talking scams that are more sort of a matter of being sent an invoice that you think you’ve got coming, not actually double checking the bank account, the BSB, and ending up putting that money in some amounts of money into the wrong account. But then, when you look at the Black Friday sales, sometimes there may be websites, or, you know, different sites that you think you’re buying something that’s from an official website, and it turns out that it’s not. So, it’s something we’ll all be keeping a really close eye on, because we know that the CEO of the Australian Banking Association has said that scammers are increasingly using AI to mimic real brands, to create fake sites and to post bogus social media listings. Now joining me on the line to tell us more about the ways in which we can be safe. I just seem to be having a bit of an issue with my phone line, but I think I’ve got him now. It is the Australian Banking Associations CEO, Simon Birmingham, good morning to you, Simon. 

Simon Birmingham (Guest): Good morning. Katie, great to be with you.  

Katie Woolf: Yeah, lovely to catch up with you as well. Simon, tell me, , we know that AI is really, I guess, when it comes to a lot of what we’re doing in our day to day lives, but mimicking real brands to create fake websites and posting bogus social media listings, it certainly is a bit worrying as we head into the Christmas period and the Black Friday sales. 

Simon Birmingham: Well, it is Katie and totally understand we all like to get a good bargain where we can. And Australians are estimated to spend around $7 billion during these Black Friday sales. But it’s really a warning to just take a little bit of extra care in the race to get that bargain. If it takes you an extra couple of minutes to check that the website you’re on is the real deal and not a fake and to check that any communications you get are coming from a real seller, not somebody pretending to be a seller or pretending to be a delivery agent, then it’s worth your time, because it could save you your money and save you being one of around $40 million worth of losses in shopping scams that Australians currently face each year.  

Katie Woolf: That is wild. That’s such a phenomenal amount of money that people have been scammed? 

Simon Birmingham: Look, it is. It’s a real battle to try to cramp down on this and to make sure that these scams are stopped. So, we talked about AI in the introduction. Banks are using those tools to really try to stop and slow down scamming, and to give bank customers greater power and know when they’re transferring money, who they’re transferring it to through Confirmation of Payee technologies, to be able to intervene in transactions that appear to be high risk and stop or pause them. And these technologies are a race against the scammers, but banks are sort of the last line of defence. The first line of defence is good consumer behaviour and making sure that people actually take a bit of care when they’re undertaking purchases themselves. 

Katie Woolf: Yeah, what are some of the biggest scam trends that shoppers need to be watching out for this year. 

Simon Birmingham: You mentioned a couple in the intro, obviously the duplication of websites, so that increasing ability for scammers to make a website look like it’s the real deal. So, you should check the URL address properly and carefully. You should use a proper search engine to also, perhaps double check that it’s taking you to a legitimate site for whatever goods it is you’re looking to purchase from whichever known retailer you’re looking to purchase it from. There’s also, of course, still the barrage of fake text messages, emails often linked to delivery arrangements or the like. And a key message is that once you’ve paid for your goods, no legitimate retailer should or would be asking you to pay any more. So, if you get messages around the delivery saying that you need to give you credit card details again, it’s some additional payment for delivery that should really send off the alarm bells. It should go back to the source that you bought it from and double check whether any of that is true. 

Katie Woolf: Simon, I don’t know if it’s insight into some of my shopping habits, but I definitely get some of those – you know, the fake ones pretending to be delivering your parcel. And you know, I always make sure that I just use the Australia Post app or go to their website to track anything before I click on any of those links.  

Simon Birmingham: Exactly Katie, using known and verified and trusted sources is one of the safest ways to go, and that includes the places that you choose to shop. Doesn’t mean that you can’t go and look at new sites or new places, but make sure you do a little bit of due diligence and checking to ensure that others are having positive experiences in actually getting the goods that they get. And remember that old adage, if it if it seems or sounds too good to be true, then it might be your sales period is too good to be true. 

Katie Woolf: Exactly, exactly. We all love a good sale, but you got to make sure you’re being careful. Simon, what’s one final piece of advice you’ve got for Territorians? As I know there’d be a lot of people getting messages over the next 24 hours or so about the Black Friday sales. What do we need to make sure that we’re aware of. 

Simon Birmingham: Well, in addition to all of those steps of just taking that bit of extra care, pausing, checking, verifying, look, the one last thing is, unfortunately, if you do get scammed, please do report it. There’s no guarantee that your bank or anybody else can get the money back for you, but if you report it, it increases the chance that they’ll be able to stop the next person from being scammed, because they’ll have better information to work with. 

Katie Woolf: Yeah, and I always hear from people as well, Simon, you know, they’re a bit embarrassed after they do maybe get caught up in a scam, and they feel like they’ve done something wrong. And you know, we all do need to make sure we’re more careful and as vigilant as we can be, but there’s no shame in it, you know, make sure that you do report it. Make sure you tell someone and do your best. If there’s a way to, you know, to be able to stop from being able to make that final payment, do what you need to do to try and stop it. 

Simon Birmingham: Yeah, indeed, Katie, and that really is, is a key thing for everyone, that it can happen to the best of us can happen in any circumstances, and so definitely just don’t be don’t be afraid to report because as it may not get you your money back, but it’s absolutely key when you think about how bank others in in the scams ecosystem, can go about ensuring that others don’t get scammed in the future. Knowing the details of scams that are happening is crucial, and I only wish that social media companies did more as well. We had shocking revelations just the other week that Meta, the Facebook and Instagram owners, are taking billions of dollars in known scam ads and it really just shows how important the fight is and for others to play their part, and certainly banks and legitimate retailers, and we’re all working hard to try to do what we can, and we’d love to see those social media companies step up to the party. 

Katie Woolf: Yeah, spot on. Couldn’t agree more. Well, Simon Birmingham, the Australian Banking Association CEO, great to catch up with you. Thanks so much for your time this morning. 

Simon Birmingham: Thanks so much. Katie, you too and happy shopping safely to everyone. 

Ends