ABA CEO Simon Birmingham transcript of interview on ABC Radio Adelaide with Rory McLaren

E&OE 
Radio Interview 
ABC Adelaide 
27 January 2026. 

Topics: Expanding scam prevention rules; Tips to avoid scams 

Rory McLaren (Host): But now to scammers, it appears that many scammers are moving faster than the laws that are designed to try and stop them. While banks and telecommunication companies face tough new rules, criminals appear to be slipping through the cracks using online marketplaces, messaging services, apps and other platforms that aren’t necessarily regulated as tightly. Now Australia’s banks, they want the federal government to widen the net before more people lose. Joining you now is former Liberal senator and minister now the CEO of the Australian Banking Association, Simon Birmingham. Simon Birmingham, welcome.  

Simon Birmingham (Guest): good and happy morning to you and your listeners Rory. 

Rory McLaren: Simon Birmingham what do your members say the issues are with the current laws? 

Simon Birmingham: Well, Rory, we really welcome the current laws. First and foremost, Australia is at a world leading edge when it comes to the tackling of scams. Industry initiatives like Confirmation of Payee, which people will have seen pop up on their banking apps when they’re transferring money, are helping to drive down scam losses, and are important breakthroughs of cooperation. And the laws passed by the Australian Parliament just at the start of last year are really important because they don’t just place bonuses on banks, which they do and we welcome, but they also take the world leading approach by capturing telecommunications companies and digital platforms as well, and put onuses, and we’ll put create obligations on them to play their role, to help stop scams at the source, not just at the point where people are transferring money, which is all too often, too late.  

So we welcome that, but the initial drafts of where those obligations will sit don’t capture some parts of digital platforms that we think are really important to add in, dating apps, crypto exchanges, online shopping platforms such as Facebook marketplace. They may not all be there on day one of these new obligations coming into effect, but we think it’s important for government to signal they will be dragged in, because these are many of the areas where Australians, sadly, do get scammed.  

Rory McLaren: Okay, are there not challenges here potentially Simon Birmingham, when it comes to you, mentioned their Facebook marketplace as one example, trying to put controls around something like Facebook marketplace. 

Simon Birmingham: There are absolutely challenges Rory and I don’t think we will ever be able to eliminate scams. Scams existed long before the internet, and unscrupulous people will always be out to rip off others, and will always find ways to do so. But the ability under these laws that were put in place is for reasonable obligations and expectations to be put onto banks, telcos, the digital platforms, and there’s flexibility for government to define what those reasonable obligations are. We welcome the fact that for general advertising and so on on Facebook, the government’s flagging that Meta, the owners of Facebook, should be able to know who the advertisers are. That’s pretty basic. Banks have to know who their customers are. It’s reasonable to expect that advertisers are identifiable, so that if they are running fake investment scams, those investment scams can be shut down. Those ads can be pulled down.  

And you know, sadly, Meta is making billions of dollars out of scam ads at present. To looking at dating apps, crypto exchanges, Facebook marketplace type settings, thinking through what are the reasonable expectations? At the very least, once a potential scam is identified, those sites should take those ads down, those posts down as quickly as possible. Now that’s a pretty simple expectation, possibly, if there was anything to do with bank account details in those posts, expecting those companies to share that with banks is also a reasonable expectation, and then makes it easier for banks to stop scam funds flowing into those accounts. So, they’re the type of reasonable things that can and should be done. Won’t stop everything won’t stop necessarily, the person selling fake Tay Tay tickets who’s never done so before… 

Rory McLaren: You would never have got caught buying any of those, would you Simon Birmingham? 

Simon Birmingham: I’ve been lucky, but there’s certainly been times, and I think as I’ve taken this job on, it’s made me much more acutely aware Rory. 

Rory McLaren: We may we may joke slightly there, Simon Birmingham, but these are, we are talking about real money here. We’re not talking about, you know, pretend dollars, and we’re talking about significant amounts of money, particularly if you talk about romance scams as one example. 

Simon Birmingham: Real money and real heartbreak in the case of romance scams, so people who are conned into believing that they are in a legitimate and genuine relationship with somebody where there is potential for that to go further and sadly, are convinced to transfer money. In 2024 it’s estimated that around $157 million was lost by Australians to romance scams. And whilst being scammed for footing tickets or concert tickets might cost you a few $100 we tragically see in in the romance scams that that can be in the tens of thousands and occasionally even hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it also comes with huge embarrassment and heartache for those individuals, which is why we think they should be a priority to clamp down on to. 

Rory McLaren: How far advanced are you with talks with the Federal Government about these changes that your members are putting forward Simon Birmingham? 

Simon Birmingham: We thought government did a good job with the legislation they passed last year. We’re having good dialog with them about how the scam prevention framework is implemented. We welcome the quality of obligations put on the sectors they are proposing to regulate initially.  

So these are really suggestions of where it should go to next and I think Daniel Molino, who’s the Assistant Treasurer, is doing a good job, considering the complexities of these issues, trying to land the right spot, has said it won’t be easy, It can’t all be done at once, and we acknowledge that, but we think the biggest gains in terms of stopping scans in Australia and right around the world can be made through the digital platforms. That’s where they are proliferating, and that’s where we really need to make sure that across those different remits, not just your messenger platforms, but also those dating apps, those crypto exchanges and those online marketplaces that ultimately all come in, and by signalling early that’s going to happen, even if it doesn’t occur, this year starts to put those companies on notice to change their behaviour. 

Rory McLaren: It’s 26 minutes to 10. That is the voice of the CEO of the Australian Banking Association, Simon, Birmingham. Simon, before you leave, I need to ask you about the state of the coalition. Obviously, you were a long serving South Australian liberal senator. How do you reflect on the events of the last week, and is there a path forward for the coalition between the National Party and the Liberal Party? 

Simon Birmingham: Rory, I was fortunate to have 18 amazing years, and most of those as a minister and forever indebted to the good people of South Australia for those opportunities. I’m out of Parliament, removed from partisan politics. But what I would say the current situation is now what has happened, has occurred in terms of seemingly a split in the coalition. It’s now what they make of it that matters, and what they make of it in a way that is good for our democracy and the Liberal Party should seize this opportunity to pursue policy ambition unconstrained by another party, particularly in areas of economic policies that can be focused on Australia’s competitiveness and the financial wellbeing of Australians, and they should see this as an opportunity to make sure that the historic brand the Liberal Party has seen for strong economic management is reinforced with bold policies that capture people’s imaginations with the liberal stamp put across it that I can say in a non-partisan way, wouldn’t just be good for them, but would be good for our democracy in terms of the contest of ideas and the choice that Australians get the next election. 

Rory McLaren: Simon Birmingham, keep cool. Thank you 

Ends