Anna Bligh interview with ABC Sydney Drive on mule accounts

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Chris Bath (Host): Now, I had no idea this is a thing. Australians are renting or selling their bank accounts so crooks can cash in. It’s called being a money mule. Anna Bligh is the CEO of the Australian Banking Association, and she’s here to tell you all about it. Anna, thank you very much for your time.

Anna Bligh (Guest): Thanks, Chris. Good to be with you.

Chris Bath: How do you become a money mule?

Anna Bligh: Look, it’s a very interesting question. These schemes are operated by very sophisticated criminal gangs. Essentially, they’re advertising online – you know, basically Google “rent a bank account” and you’ll be astonished by the number of opportunities that come up. So, this is just on the regular internet, not the dark web or anything like that.

Chris Bath: That’s right, Facebook groups and people who feel like they’re operating with impunity.

Anna Bligh: Obviously, many of the people who are doing this are involved in criminal activity, they know exactly what they’re doing and they’re associated with the criminals who are part of these gangs. But some are offered the chance to earn somewhere between $200 and $500 a week for what seems a pretty harmless task. That’s why the ABA and the Australian Federal Police are shining a light on it: if somebody offers you money to use your bank account, you can be certain they’ll use it for criminal activity, more than likely to move scammed money—maybe from your own friends or family—out of the country. So, it’s a critical part of the scam cycle and we need to stamp it out.

Chris Bath: What’s in it for the criminals? Why are they doing this?

Anna Bligh: For a scam to succeed they first have to trick you out of your money, say, with a romance scam where you think you’re sending funds to your future husband – but they also need an account to receive it. These are legitimate Australian accounts opened with proper identification, so they look harmless. When you send the money it lands in that mule account, and the scammers often sweep it straight offshore. For the criminals, what they’re paying for is effectively a getaway vehicle. For the person renting out the account it looks like easy money, but it isn’t harmless.

Chris Bath: Is it a bit of a gamble for the crooks, hoping the mule won’t just keep the money?

Anna Bligh: I guess it is – usually they’ll only try it once with that person. And some people are tricked or coerced into it; these are serious criminals who can fool or threaten people to hand over access.

Chris Bath: How are they tricking people into doing it?

Anna Bligh: It’s another form of scamming. They convince people to give them their bank-account details. They don’t steal from that person; instead, they bounce money into the account. Banks now have very sophisticated detection techniques that improve every month. Last year they closed 13,000 of these accounts—that’s a lot of accounts being used, sometimes multiple times, to move scammed money offshore. The year before, it was 9,000. We don’t know if the problem is growing or if detection is simply better. Between the AFP’s work and banks shutting accounts, the consequences are real. If your account is closed you can’t receive your salary or social-security payments, and banks are sharing information so customers at other banks don’t suffer the same fate.

Chris Bath: How dangerous is it for the person acting as the money mule?

Anna Bligh: Much more dangerous now. Banks can spot unusual patterns and the AFP is putting a spotlight on the activity. It’s illegal—people can get jail sentences. In Sydney last year a woman was jailed for operating ten separate accounts that laundered money for a criminal gang. Banks will also close those accounts if they see them being used as mule accounts.

Chris Bath: If someone asks to use your bank account, where can you report it?

Anna Bligh: Tell your bank first, and – if you have enough information – tell the police. The message is clear: if someone offers to rent or buy your bank account, it’s for a criminal purpose, and you’ll face consequences too. Chris, we all know not to carry a stranger’s package through Bali airport; being a banking mule is the same. It isn’t harmless, victimless or legal, and the more people who know that, the fewer will do it. Easy money that looks harmless is actually helping criminals rip off other Australians.

Chris Bath: Anna Bligh, thanks very much for your time.

Anna Bligh: Thanks, Chris.

Chris Bath: Anna Bligh there, the CEO of the Australian Banking Association.

Ends

Anna Bligh